Curse

BoredJoe · Nov 16, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

I personally don't think so. Normally it's the strategy and team build that wins through in the mission, rather than extra % points in damage. I'm sure that many players who go through Urgoz or the Tombs or the Deep don't have the optimal setup eg. vampiric weapons, 16 in the particular attribute *ahem*, but everything still works.

A PUG with all maxed out lightbringer titles is more likely to fail than an organised guild group who are all on rank 1, IMHO.

Curse You · Nov 16, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I got Rank 3 Lightbringer on my main character just recently (the Elite signet is totally useless for anything but a Paragon), so I guess I won't be feeling the descrimination... if there is any.

The Winds Silence · Nov 16, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

<-- Conquering Commander (6). yea thats LB points, everyone friggin asks, and i do agree that there will be discrimination if the new elite mission involves gaze. but what do i care, gaze is amazing for the energy cost, people need to realize.. at rank 6. u can hit a group or margos for over 600 dmg.. hmm sounds good to me

Curse You · Nov 16, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Winds Silence

<-- Conquering Commander (6). yea thats LB points, everyone friggin asks, and i do agree that there will be discrimination if the new elite mission involves gaze. but what do i care, gaze is amazing for the energy cost, people need to realize.. at rank 6. u can hit a group or margos for over 600 dmg.. hmm sounds good to me

That's not how the skill works -_-

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lightbringer%27s_Gaze

TechnoSword · Nov 16, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I think he means a group because for every rank you hit another adjacent person and with rank 6 you can hit 6 adjacent targets from the person you casted the skill on.

Karlos · Nov 16, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

It would be kind of hard to max out Lightbringer for all your chars that you plan on using in the Elite mission, so I see the grind there. However, I am fairly certain ANet will not make it so that the grind is mandatory.

I don't see it as discrimination though. Farming Lightbringer points is not exactly rocket science, and once it becomes "important" you can bet there will be "LB farming Builds" and "LB point services even." There are a few places in Vabbi where farming Lightbringer points is extremely trivial. I used to do it with 4 party members only there.

necrozsi · Nov 16, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Actually that may be true, but it will most likely apply to only warrior/assassin/dervish/paragons/mesmers etc.

Monks/ele/nec on the other hand are so high in demand for all missions/pve that any group would want them regardless of their lightbringer rank.

upier · Nov 16, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

i was ready for a rant on titles discrimination since i still bloody hate the general title (the only title that i even experienced since i cant be bothered to get it - let me advance not freaking force me to stay in a bloody ugly area)
then i breathe in and out and remembred - elite missions update? will i even be playing by then? since eversince ive installed nightfall ive been playing less and less and when i play its in factions of prophecies.
so no need to get worked up

thezed · Nov 16, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

In an elite mission there SHOULD be discrimination. I dont want to start that kind of test of skill with someone who is not able to survive it.

Furthermore, on the issue of "grinding" for Lightbringer points, these elite missions typicly take 3-5 hours to complete. If you are unable/unwilling to spend the time to get a good LB rank then you will probably be unable/unwilling to spend the time to finish the mission.

I encurage LB rank discrimination in the elite mission!

Rera · Nov 16, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

The problem with Lightbringer rank discrimination in particular is that LB rank is worthless as an indicator of either experience or skill. Farming LB takes absolutely no skill or thought, so the person with r8 could be a complete idiot, but he'd get more groups than the veteran player with r3 because he refused to grind the title.

Regardless, rank discrimination will happen anyway, because people are too stupid to stop and think about what a title actually indicates.

Cebe · Nov 16, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

The problem with Lightbringer rank discrimination in particular is that LB rank is worthless as an indicator of either experience or skill. Farming LB takes absolutely no skill or thought, so the person with r8 could be a complete idiot, but he'd get more groups than the veteran player with r3 because he refused to grind the title.

Regardless, rank discrimination will happen anyway, because people are too stupid to stop and think about what a title actually indicates.

It's not skill or experience, necessarily, I think people will be looking for people with a high rank in lightbringer so that, as the OP said I think, it will improve the efficiency of Lightbringer's Gaze. Also to my knowledge Lightbringer only goes to lvl 5? I'm at lvl 3 now, i think I'm on 1300 points or something like that and all I've done is play through the game and get 100% exploration...I don't think I even took all the blessings I could have taken...it shouldn't be that hard. Also, if you're planning on doing the Elite Missions and all the speculation about Lightbringer turns out to be correct then you should have no problem with the Master Level quests in the Realm of Torment...these give a fair few Lightbringer points each.

crimsonfilms · Nov 16, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

The problem with Lightbringer rank discrimination in particular is that LB rank is worthless as an indicator of either experience or skill. Farming LB takes absolutely no skill or thought, so the person with r8 could be a complete idiot, but he'd get more groups than the veteran player with r3 because he refused to grind the title.

But this logic does not make sense. We are talking about PUGs here. Is there really a method or device you can use to truly judge skill that does not take too much time? You imply that somehow there is.

And this GW PvE - it does not take a brain surgeon to execute any of the mission.

It is precisely because true skill is hard to guage people will WANT LB ranks. Why? Because it is an inherent advantage in regards to the game mechanics.

It is not discrimination. People are using this word quite liberally for no good reason.

It is not a big deal - in fact - people should look for players with LB rank if the enemies will consist of such types.

Amity and Truth · Nov 16, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Well, if there are enemies which are vulnerable to the Lightbringer Abilities then yes... Rank Discrimination will come and for once it will actually mean something unlike the ever stupid "i've got rankz0r 9 from pvp, i r teh god" behavior.
It doesn't equal skill. It shows dedication to a point, which is a good thing. As someone allready has mentioned, elitemissions take time and countless are the times i had to abort an elitemission simply because the people did not have enough dedication to complete it even though they stated otherwise. It's simply a problem with peoples attention span.
A high LB Rank means he went the way. He invested time to get it.
But even if we put that aside and take out every skill or time part as well. There is still one reason why i'll be taking high ranked LBs over no ranked LBs.

Efficiency.
They do more damage, they take less damage plus they have Lightbringers Gaze.

Clone · Nov 16, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

I've seen PvE rank discrimination already in Nightfall. Seeing it in the elite missions will be inevitable. Time to accept it, Guild Wars is about grinding.

gabrial heart · Nov 16, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

I think, just ever so possibly it won't be abaddons minions and may not even be in the realm. There is a very good possiblity that the elite mission is in chantry and could be an entirely different strategy. Personally i think the LB gaze is way overpowered and if the elite mission was 12 people with lb gaze (even all at R2) against abaddons minions it would hardly be a mission worth calling elite. Thats 1200 points in damage to a single target in many cases and even the worst timed spike group could mow through very large groups, not to mention what 12 R8's would do to a mission like that. So either gaze wont be viable or it won't be abaddon.

Bane of Worlds · Nov 16, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

There are grinding in every game in one form or another, there are people who think they're elite in every online and offline games, and people are picky when it comes to the success of whatever they want to achieve like rolling thru areas with ease and maximum time efficiency like in gw missions or great farming areas.

---Follower of Grenth

Priest Of Sin · Nov 16, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

-sigh- time to farm LB points.

Badger2 · Nov 16, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Come on people, everyone of us discriminated when we chose the way our character looks. Why? Because we preferred "this" look over that one. Over simplified example? Yes, but discrimination none the less.

If someone is forming an 8 man team of asassins why would they want a warrior? As stupid as this idea is it is still a preference as to how the team is put together.

If any of us are prevented from refusing anyone that has no LB rank at all does that also mean we must accept a lvl 1 nec trying to convience us they are a mm.

If you are the one being "discriminated" against, get over it. Find another team or better yet start your own and build it the way you want it and then you can be the one doing the discriminating.

Sectus · Nov 16, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

If NF's elite mission is anything like Faction's elite missions you can bet that puggies are gonna demand a high LB rank.

I personally don't care much about the discrimination since I avoid PUGs like the plague, but I dislike the imbalance this will have.

A full team of human players will have a tremendous advantage due to them all carrying Lightbringer. (a team of r9 lb's will be godlike) But a team with 3 players and 9 heroes will be at an extreme disadvantage because they lack LBs.

I don't understand why anet just doesn't remove the LB nonsense altogether and let us play missions with their intended difficulty.

I also got a feeling this will also just encourage people to start mindlessly farm the mission. "Gimmicky build looking for R9 LB pugs to easily clear mission in 10 minutes!"

beanerman_99 · Nov 16, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Bah! Just let me take my Heroes and a few Henchies and I will be happy. For some reason the longer I play guild wars, the more I play it alone. No hassles with waiting to get a team together, no waiting to set skills, no AFKer's or rage quitters and so on and so on.

Plus, If I can try it a few times with my AI group, I can learn for MYSELF what goes on in the mission, what the monsters are like, what strategies work best, AND I can explore and enjoy the new area at my own leasure. Then when I join a Pug I would be more familiar with the mission and less of a hinderance to the group.

I hated the Factions elite mission. The first time I tried it I was commanded to do certain things by the group leader and told "do this, go there, use this" blah blah blah. Thats fine, I understood why he was telling us what to do so that we all survived and made it deeper. But as said before, I felt rushed and not really in control of my own actions, and didn't really get time to look aroung and enjoy it.

Just my 2cents.